During my academic career, I have chaired or sat on hundreds of interview panels. I went through the necessary HR training more than once and have read many guidance documents and briefing notes. Since being professionally identified (or “diagnosed”) as autistic in 2018, various issues that have always bothered me have come to the fore. I believe I have had some small impact on changing the interview process itself. However, and despite that, interviews remain a game designed by neurotypicals for neurotypicals. Given that they are a heightened and unnatural situation, those who understand how to role play and dissemble, how to engage in all those small social cues that provide mutual reassurance amongst groups of like-minded people, are the ones who normally succeed. The same would be true of an interview situation comprising mainly autistic people, but those are relatively rare. The structure and HR approach to interviews is most certainly designed by neurotypicals, although there have been attempts recently to be more inclusive. As always, those attempts are a bolt-on to standard practice: “if you are interviewing an autistic person then you should…”. It is often impossible to know that the person you are interviewing is autistic!
When I compare my experience as an interviewer with my experience as an interviewee, a marked difference emerges. I have had four major jobs in my career, and I have not been interviewed for any of them. In every single case, somebody has decided that I am the right person for that role and has invited me in. In other words, I have always been headhunted. I have only ever done two actual interviews. The first was for an academic lecturing post at a different university. The interview went as badly as might be expected, with all the usual autistic anxieties about the venue, the situation, and sensory issues, combining to lead me to overshare massively in answer to their first question. (I did meet the chair of the panel at a conference several years later and he was kind enough to express regret that they did not appoint me, which was very generous of him).
The other interview was internal, when I was encouraged by the Vice-Chancellor to apply for a senior management position. The interview was conducted in a vast glass and metal building in central London by a slick team of HR consultants. I had no opportunity to familiarise myself with the building beforehand, no idea where I was going or who I was to meet, and no efforts were made to create a suitable sensory environment for me. My brain cannot be active if I am sensorially overwhelmed, as I was on this occasion. The interview was disastrous because they asked me what I thought of the Vice-Chancellor and I gave a full and honest reply which was pretty negative. Autistic people are always honest and direct in their answers to interview questions, regardless of the consequences for their own prospects. Looking back, though, I reckon I had a lucky escape!
Before becoming an academic at the age of 29, I survived in a haphazard way on a mixture of unemployment benefit (“the dole”, without which I would probably not be here today) and occasional casual work. I never held down casual work for long (it included things like collating traffic surveys, screwing the baseplates on mannequins, and working in a food warehouse) and I was never interviewed because I was placed in these positions by the dole office. Avoiding being interviewed was a key part of the reason for my lack of regular employment. I also did quite a lot of copying music parts for publishers and composers, something that again I could do without being interviewed and which I could do at home. At the time, I was unaware that it was the prospect of being interviewed that drove me away. Now, of course, I realise that that was a major reason, alongside the fear of having to mix with colleagues, working in unfamiliar environments, etc.
Since my diagnosis in 2018, I have become much more aware of the issues facing autistic people who go for an interview. To give one example, I have repeatedly challenged HR (Human Resources) departmental advice to interviewers that they should assess a person’s body language and eye contact. This seems to be something all HR people are taught and fits with ridiculous clichés such as the idea that people are more honest if they look you in the eye. The whole idea of “body language” seems suspect to me. As far as I can tell, neurotypicals lie with their bodies all the time, and the notion that they share mutual understanding that way is just a comforting myth to make them feel reassured, a form of social bonding if you like. Needless to say, autistic people find all that utterly baffling and generally do not conform to normal expectations of how their bodies should behave.
Reinventing the interview process is a massive and probably unrealistic task. Organisations generally do not have sufficient time and resources to devote more to interviews. However, the downside is that many autistic people then either fail at interview or, more often, never get to the interview in the first place. There are numerous statistics around about the disproportionately low levels of employment in the autistic community. The National Autistic Society sets it at 30%.
What can be done? Ideally, I would like to do away with interviews altogether and replace them with a kind of probationary working model where people are given an opportunity to experience the real environment of the job for a week or two (during which time they would be paid, of course). One of the commonest mistakes autistic people make is to assume that they should try at all costs to get the job for which they are being interviewed. This is wrong because interviews should be a two-way process, in which both interviewers and interviewees figure out if this is the right ‘fit’ for them. Allowing a longer time to come to that judgment is the best solution, and would lead to far fewer bad appointments or, indeed, devastating rejections, being made.
Failing that, there are some practical steps that organisations can take to help autistic people who come for interviews. There are numerous good pieces of guidance online from, for example: the University of Bath, Autistica and the Buckland Review of Autism Employment. I’d distil these into the following key points:
- Provide the candidate with videos of the interview venue in advance, or even a visit, and give them the questions they will be asked in advance too (there is nothing to be gained by making people “think on their feet”. That is a typical example of metaphorical language to be avoided. Even as I write it, I become confused, even though I know exactly what it is trying to express).
- Be sure to use clear language without metaphors and ambiguities. Speak literally.
- Be very careful about the physical environment. Potential sensory issues include strong lights (strip lighting is the worst), unexpected sounds, strange smells, and so on. It is best to check with the candidate beforehand what bothers them.
- Avoid interruptions and stick closely to schedule. Include breaks if the process is long, and stick to them too.
- Explain the process and make it clear that the interview is two-way.
- Allow (even encourage) the candidate to stim during the interview. This has the advantage of being reassuring for them but also is an important signal that you understand their needs.
- Provide a quiet room where candidates can decompress in private. Don’t make the candidates engage in social interaction with one another.
- Be aware that autistic people may seek to comply with whatever it is you seem to be wanting.